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Mule
10-07-2007, 01:39 PM
I came across this term on another site, and wonder if there is any such thing, or is it a matter of semantics.

According to my definition of the word, a fetish is something that you are born with. There is no logical reason for having a sexual response to it.

I can understand that one can have Pavlovian conditioned reflexes to non-sexual stimuli. If almost every time she puts on pink angora ear muffs, she throws you on the bed, rips off your clothes and gives you the best sex you've ever had, chances are that, eventually, seeing pink angora ear muffs will get you sexually aroused.

I also make a distinction between a "true" fetish and a derivative fetish. My true fetish is for rubber. One of my derived fetishes is Keds sneakers.

Why Keds, and not some other type of sneaker, or just any object made of rubber? The second element is that the object had to have something to do with something uniquely female.

At the time I developed this fetish about age 5 or 6, Keds were the ONLY kind of sneaker girls wore, only girls wore them and almost every girl wore them. Boys wore high-top sneakers (including the Keds brand-name), but naturally, these did nothing for me and it wasn't until the 1980's when the "Preppy" Look came in that boys wore anything remotely looking like girls Keds.

Women's bathing caps were other obvious fetish objects. In the 1950's and 60's almost all women and girls wore them when they went swimming. The fact that I lived at a beach meant that I saw them every day during the summer.

I didn't know about latex cat suits and body suits when I was 5 or 6, so I did not develop (nor do I have now) a fetish for shiny rubber wear.

That brings up another aspect of fetishes, in my opinion, that they are something that comes about early in life.

sissy_slave
10-08-2007, 06:49 PM
Hello Mule,

I find it difficult to understand how someone is "Born With" a fetish. I think all fetishes are acquired at some point in someone's life based on what one see's, does or desires. I agree that most fetishes may not be logic based. But, I am not sure someone is born with them. They are acquired in my opinion.

Your example of a rubber fetish is perfect for this discussion. When you were born you could not possibly have any concept of "rubber" or any specific definitions of the types of rubber that draw your attention or interest. You must have "learned" to adore it at some point beyond your birth. Whatever drew you to Keds or swimming caps had to come from some experience that you had. Unless you are suggesting that they were part of your pre-birth experience.

I have found several definitions for the word Fetish and Fetishism over the many years. As I have developed many fetishes that my wife has induced I have really tried to understand what they are about. I am still learning so please be patient with me as I continue my struggle to learn.

I see a big difference between "conditioned responses" versus "fetishes" in my life.

The dog that gets hungry when he hears a certain bell ring is a great example of a conditioned response. The same with a head snap (or erection) at the sound of a pair of high heels clip clopping along a wooden floor.

However, the deep set desire to worship or to place great power in the same pair of heels sitting on the same floor seems to me to fit most of the definitions I have found of a FETISH.

In my lifestyle I have been taught many conditioned responses by my wife. So many, that it would take days of typing to list them all. I have also had many fetishes induced in my lifestyle. That list would be shorter as I think my wife has been selective in the ones she has elected to use.

Based on my research I have found that Karl Marx used the term "commodity fetishism" in the 19th century to describe a component of capitalism.

Later on Freud used the term "sexual fetishism" to help describe the concept of people placing sexual affections onto inanimate objects (such as shoes, materials, idols, clothing items...) or specific body parts (such as lips, legs, feet, fingernails, breasts...).

I think the root of Fetish started before that when studying anthropology. I think that fetish objects took on supernatural powers which is seen in folks having worshiped idols and statues. The sexual advance of that would be equilivant to the worship of an inanimate object or body part.

I really feel that a persons life experiences contribute to and help to build fetishes. Regardless of the age the fetish begins. Placing inherent value or powers onto objects could develop at any stage of life. Some fetishists believe that the objects they covet actually "Control" them. I feel that many folks covet what they see...or what they are allowed to see.

I have personally experienced that locking a slave in a box (having been locked in many boxes myself) for extended periods of time while providing a regiment of verbal stimulation, physical punishments (and rewards), carefully targeted mental modification methodoligies and pharmacological treatments can easily produce both fetishes and conditioned responses. I know I jump out of my skin and my heart begins to race as a "conditioned reaction" when I hear the playroom door creak open (actually when I hear the key go into the pad lock) but I also know that I cannot live without a pair of heels to kiss and worship now that they have become one of my core fetishes. I know that both my conditioned responses and my fetishes have been learned since my wife has begun her experiment with me as her subject back in 1988. I know in my case, I was not "born with" any of them.

Take care and I'll chat with you more on email if you would like to. I am enjoying our on-line friendship!

Take care,
the sissy slave husband

Mule
10-08-2007, 10:15 PM
Sissyslave, I enjoyed your response.

I think that inborn fetishes are a result of cross-wiring in the brain. I have one of those brains that can "connect the dots" very well, and I can see the connection between two seemingly unrelated events.

Because of this, I am quick with humor (particularly puns) and a good Jeopardy player :-). I think what causes this to happen is "current leakage" from one part of the brain to another. In the case of the fetish, the part of my brain that has knowledge of rubber happens to be next door to, or along the path to the part that controls sexual response.

The Keds and bathing cap fetishes are explainable. They are derived from the rubber fetish.

I also have a fetish for tall women, but this may be an "induced" fetish. Mrs. Mule is 6 feet tall. I associate good things with her. I also associate height with her. So it's a simple mixing of cause and effect.

sissy_slave
10-08-2007, 11:06 PM
Dearest Mule,

I just love how you craft your posts and communications. I so enjoy getting an insight into your perspective. It is indeed refreshing!

I am also learning to appreciate your clever and sharp sense of humor. I am looking forward to our continued conversations.

I am adding a link to your awesome site as we speak. I'll zap you a personal email once the link is finalized on my wife's site.

Hey, keep in mind...you are always welcome to cum and visit us here on our bondage ranch in the Rocky Mountains. Be sure to bring your play partner if possible. We have a great guest home on our property within our fenced perimeter and would be delighted to schedule a few club events when you are in town. You would be given full reign of our barns and play spaces during your stay. We will even give you full use of one of our SUV's for your trip. All you will need is airfare. We will supply the food, beverages, medications, toys and costumes.

Just watch out for the brainwashing and hypnotherapy my wife will bring to the table. Even though she is a psychaitrist you should be aware that she is unethical, does not play fair, does not honor limits, does not use safe words, tries to scare you and uses every tool at her disposal against the subs that visit us. We have written playspace rules for our guests but she does not adhere to them. Keep an eye on her even if you find yourself blindfolded!

Still, we will promise to make a point of having some of our club members wear Keds and Swimming Caps one evening in your honor. I promise you will have a memorable time!

We are departing for a trip to Texas next week for a kinky play party and then we are off to Minnesota the following week to visit our dear friends Dom Dan and his sub (switch) wife Nurse Erin. They have a great dungeon and Dan is a porn store consultant who tries to open a new adult store at least once each year. You would love them! They are awesome and open to almost everything!!! Dom Dan calls himself Dan Almighty, The Hog Farmer or The Dauphin depending on what kink he is fiending on that week. We only have one trip planned to California in November and then we are at home the rest of the year. So let's chat about a visit if you are up for it.

Regards

sissy_slave
10-11-2007, 08:03 PM
Hello Mule,

I totally enjoyed your email! We'll plan our gathering for the first of next year...

Unitl then, see if you can find the time to craft a wild story to add to your awesome site that depicts some naughty scenes involving my wife (The Wicked Wife of the Woods), your wife (Mrs. Mule) and of course us as their boy toys!

Take care my friend,
sissy slave

nothing
10-28-2007, 09:36 PM
I think in some cases it might be a little of being born with it & a little of acquiring it or perhaps as a result of being born with the interest one explores the subject & picks up other fetishes along the way.

When I was young maybe 8-10 I had a fascination with being or posing nude around clothed older women. I was only 8-10 so it was all pretty basic or in a way tame. I really don't know where I picked up this interest, but the idea of it really did something to me. I say it in that way because I was so naive I don't think I really understood it all to be sexual. The idea of the power imbalence & being centre of attention just interested me.

It wasn't until probably 20 years later I discovered CFNM on the net & then from that femdom & then ballbusting. I don't think there are any abosolutes really, I think all 3 categories apply. Those who are born that way. Those who acquire it. & Those who are born with one fetish & through exporing that they pick up others. Not trying to be diplomatic I just think that is the way it works.

Mule
10-29-2007, 06:30 AM
Thanks for the post, nothing.

It takes all kinds and it takes all kinds of ideas.

I think that you are correct in the assessment that we're prone to certain fetishes, and that other fetishes can be derived from these.

What I do wonder about is if you are not prone to a fetish -- say for women's handbags, can a fetish be induced through reward and punishment and will it stick, or could it be programmed out.

I don't think that fetishes that we are "born" with can be programmed out.

nothing
10-29-2007, 07:22 PM
I would say that punishment programming would have to take place at a young age & perhaps something would have to be missing in your life to like that punishment. For eg: "The only time I got attention from my mother is when she spanked me". Although perhaps cliched an event like that I feel could program a fetish into someones pysche that perhaps was never there to begin with. This is different to someone who might be born with that fetish & is turned on by it for no logical reason or is turned on by the act of being dominated & spanking is a mild form of that so they like it not for the act itself but for what it represents. I would say that punishment & reward go together as the reward is attention in this case.

I think many fetishes actually can be explained by the object or act representing an idea rather than that object itself. Your post (Mule) about keds sneakers is an example of this, its not so much the snaeakers as it is the memory it triggers & your early exploration of rubber.

You also mentioned womens handbags as an example & although not really my thing I can see how one might also develop a fetish for different reasons over them. All women carry handbags & if you have as a child have a pretermined fetish for Femdom than perhaps as women come to your house & gather & leave their handbags around you start to associate that with Femanity. They are also usually made of leather which smells erotic. Of course different people will develop similar fetishes for different reasons.

Going back to the first post about people being born with a fetish. Is that many people will find themselves drawn to things (erotic or otherwise) for no reason they can think of, such as someone who sits at a piano as a child & starts to play even though music isn't part of their household.

I'm mostly thinking about my own childhood & CFNM is something that I can not find a reason for, I just found the pyschology of it a turn on. Then of course you start to explore & things go from there.

I agree with you, I don't believe fetishes you are born with can be programmed out. I'm not sure if anyone has ever lost interest in a "born with" fetish this may be the only time it can happen. As far as developed fetishes, I guess it depends on how strong you feel them, if it is something you really feel you need or want then possibly not. It also depends on whether you feel the fetish is too disruptive to your life, it may be better to try & de-program it to some degree. Any obsession is a bad thing, especially for one that can be hard to attain.

Sorry didn't mean to waffle on. I find this very interesting.

Mule
10-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Waffle away! :lol:

I find your comments interesting.

Along this vein is my attraction (not to the point of a fetish however) for tall women. Mrs. Mule is 6 foot tall. Do I find her attractive because she is tall, or do I like tall women because I associate tallness with Mrs. Mule and all her qualities.

This also brings up a side discussion: how strong must an attraction be before it become a fetish?

miker39
10-30-2007, 11:19 AM
I'am not sure about "born with" or the "induced fetish" ideas. :( I trace my love for rope bondage to my early childhood. My sister tying me up while babysitting me at about 6 or 7 (she was probably just getting me out of the way to meet with her boy friend), a female playmate at about that sametime playing cowboy's and indians. (I always seemed to get captured by the Indian princess :P ) to later watching various t v programs etc. At about 12 my first secret love. The 17 year old accross the street. ;) I spent alot of restless nights bound and gagged thinking about her.

"Born with" or "induced"... don't matter to me...I'am just happy to have the memories and the fetish :D

Mule
10-30-2007, 08:18 PM
Your description of rope bondage brought out a memory I forgot about.

I grew up in Brooklyn. All of my family lived within walking distance. My cousin (female) who is a whole month younger than me, lived across the hall in the same apartment. In bad weather, we would play together over in her apartment.

There's not much one can do in an apartment, so we played rather sedate games such as board games, Legos and role playing games like school or house.

This event happened when we were about 6 years old. She wrapped me up in a blanket so tightly I could not move. I remember getting excited over the concept that she could do anything she wanted with me and I was totally helpless.

So the bondage fetish might me "inborn." In my case, I never really developed it. It was a part of my original fantasies but never acted out for real, nor did I ever really want it to happen.

Maybe its a matter of development. My cousin never wrapped me up again. Maybe if she did, I'd have a full-blown bondage fetish today.

nothing
11-01-2007, 05:28 PM
Waffle away! :lol:

I find your comments interesting.

Along this vein is my attraction (not to the point of a fetish however) for tall women. Mrs. Mule is 6 foot tall. Do I find her attractive because she is tall, or do I like tall women because I associate tallness with Mrs. Mule and all her qualities.

This also brings up a side discussion: how strong must an attraction be before it become a fetish?

Are you taller than Mrs Mule? Have you always been atttracted to tall women?

Many Pyschiatrists etc say that a fetish is something that the person must have for sexual satisfaction as they cannot get off with out it. I personally wouldn't go that far but I think it is close.

Mule
11-01-2007, 08:37 PM
Mrs. Mule and I are the same size.

I have a theory. People judge children's ages partly on their size. Taller children are assumed to be older than they actually are. So they are treated with more respect than smaller children. They are literally looked up to by their peers, and bullies tend to shy away from them.

All this combines to make tall people more confident even at a younger age. And in my opinion, confidence is very sexy.

Mrs. Mule is definitely a confident person. She was always the tallest kid in her class.

I did not go this route. I grew 9 inches in 9 months when I was 15 years old. So I was never looked up to as a kid. I learned my confidence later in life.

I've always been comfortable with tall girls. I have an older sister who, until my growth spurt was always taller than me. I have a picture of my cousin and me when we were about 9 years old. She's a full head taller than me. Now she's about a head shorter.